Variant Pay Model.

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Suno, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. revinance

    revinance Moderator Staff Member

    i don't agree with the give extra credit weapon. i dislike gameplay based on unlocks only available with money. Some of the options you gave can work especially the cosmetic one. currently though some variants are a lot stronger then the base (even sol vs genari base issues) and the current unlock will give issues in the t3 to t6 range.
    petlahk likes this.
  2. petlahk

    petlahk New Member

    To be honest, I think subscription models are on their way out. These days the only games that have subscription models are games like WOW and EVE. WOW has been steadily dying, and people seem to be preferring other games in the space-MMO genre than EVE these days. I think that this game could use a really solid free-to-play model instead of subscription. And, I think that it's simultaneously too early and too late to go for any sort of subscription or "pay for it all in one shot" model. The game is marketed as Free to Play on Steam and can only be downloaded through steam. Implementing a subscription or "Pay for it all" would only be false advertising.

    As a final note I also want to say that this game needs a lot of balancing and still has a lot of development to go. A rudimentary system for getting themselves enough income to pay the bills while still developing the game and garnering a community would be better at this point. See my suggestion above for all the ideas I have.

    (Also. I'm somewhat worried that this game is about to suffer from got-put-on-steam-too-early syndrome. This should maybe be an alpha with a community-driven paypal/kickstarter and a bit longer of a closed-beta. But, I dunno. It's too late to do that as well.)
  3. petlahk

    petlahk New Member

    It's understandable disliking the extra-weapons option. Especially considering that it hasn't been implemented or tested in any way shape or form. I think that the game needs something a bit more tangible for players to pay for than just skins though. Skins are probably mostly just bought by players who want to contribute to the game. It's a way to make some good extra cash, but I'm not sure it's as good as some of the other suggestions I had surrounding ships that are balanced, yet playable and interesting.

    And, I completely agree. I think that every single ship currently in the game should be available for LP only with no credit wall. I only suggested scaling back the credit walls to one ship variant per ship type in higher tiers (Maybe T5+) because they need some way to make cash-flow while they implement the changes needed for an acceptable free-to-play monetization.

    Edit: A few words
  4. Gant

    Gant Member would anyone want to listen to cheapskate?

    Same story as with MungFuSensei...
  5. Beernchips

    Beernchips Member

    Well the "cheapstakes" will be 90% of the playerbase and without them you won t have enough player to make this 100% online multiplayer pvp conquest game interesting because without player no one will pay for ships to play vs AI
    petlahk likes this.
  6. MungFuSensei

    MungFuSensei New Member

    It's not about being cheap. It's about not throwing money away. It's about demanding a fair price and ensuring that we get good value for our money. Surely there is a point where you wouldn't pay for this game. How much is too much for you? $10 a ship? $20?

    With the current model, I might....MIGHT spend $5 on a ship, and then never buy anything else. If they unlock everything for $40, I'd easily buy that. Thus, I am willing to part with my money, and not cheap, I just want more. If I get more, then so does the developer. This is simple economics.
    petlahk likes this.
  7. Gant

    Gant Member

    Are you sure you understand what 'cheap' means?

    That part about economics hurts...since what you are saying is lacking any economical basis.
  8. Suno

    Suno Member

    You're missing the point none of us have a problems dumping money into this game. In fact if it sold Shares I would probably invest.

    I'm a gamer by trade, I have worked for multiple indie companies Including a massive MMORPG . I've done research on markets player bases, genres and target demographics and have a good understanding of the broader public perception, what works and what doesn't. I am not talking out of my ass and i am certainly not cheap. I like many others want to see the success of this game and this could snowball to great negative effects, I have seen it before.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
    HeyitsStew and petlahk like this.
  9. Superman0X

    Superman0X New Member

    You are now looking at monetization, something which I have a bit more than a passing familiarity. It is always hard to find a balance that works for everyone. It is not clear that you have thought out your full monetization approach, so I will only address the specific concern being addressed here.

    As long as you are putting some ships behind the pay wall, there will be players that feel that paying players have access to the best ships. This will always be a point of contention, and one that you will never be able to fully satisfy.

    I understand that changing these systems is not something done overnight, and that you have to ensure that they work correctly (people get upset if they spend money, and don't get what they paid for). I also understand that simple is generally better, both to understand, and to code. With this in mind, I am going to suggest that you consider a system that is a bit more complicated (but not overly so). I believe that if you allowed each user to CHOOSE a specific make/model for each Tier that was unlocked for free, it would give them confidence that the best option is never locked behind the paywall, but that instead that having multiple choices was what they are paying for. In fact you could sell unlocks (by Tier) rather than any specific ship unlock, further changing how these are seen by players.

    I encourage you to take your time to consider any changes, and not be rushed to make any permanent changes until you have thoroughly planned your monetization scheme.
    Suno and petlahk like this.
  10. Suno

    Suno Member

    I second this. Very well thought out.
  11. revinance

    revinance Moderator Staff Member

    I agree but i don't know how that would work out in the end but i would like it more myself.
  12. Gant

    Gant Member

    ...of course you are.
  13. obnosis

    obnosis New Member

    the current model has one big problem besides costs. there are certain ships nobody will ever purchase (like AF2, or SW4 or int2, just to name a few). not because they are not great, but because they have a niche playstyle that is not optimal for their tier purpose (everybody will only buy af4 just because it can give you the same xp for hitting an enemy with puny weapons AND can get you out of trouble). so every model besides the "optimal" will be ignored, even if they can actually provide interesting gameplay (i like shadowing in an AF3, for instance. it's not optimal at all tho).

    what most people will definitely pay for are the following models:
    - premium account with bonus xp/hp/lp gain on battles
    - insurance account with, let's say, a week long cooldown button that ressurects your lost ship with all crew on it - very usefull for higly trained crews.
    - credit unlocked ships (like the predator) that could have minimal lp/hp costs after unlocking. not as powerfull as a full cost, but a good start for someone into a tier.
    - full unlock to all ships like it's stated above for a price
    - subscription based game with all content unlocked

    yea, i love the game. yea, i'll purchase some ships, but only the optimal designs in this current model. so most of the devs work in graphics, balancing, design choices will be lost because i won't ever see them outside npcs.
  14. Gant

    Gant Member

    Now these are finally some constructive suggestions(except for unlock package and maybe insurance)...
  15. Beernchips

    Beernchips Member

    I don t know the amount of work it could be needed but to stay in line with Vesuvius idea to unlock ships with different variants/roles, an idea should be that the actual variants are free but you can pay to customize them.
    A first step should be that you chose a variant, power/hull/crew/shields are fixed but you can change weapons between some "equivalent variants". For example, we can switch a 4 damage 12 range plasma beam with a 5 damage 14 range laser beam or a 6 damage 8 range plasma warhead...
  16. Varag

    Varag New Member

    That´s excatly right. I would also prefer a prem account solution and prem ships which are cheaper lp/hp wise + cosmetics.
    Although i really like that game, i allready sank 100+ hours and a couple of coins in it, i won´t play it with the current way of monetization.
  17. Midnightsun

    Midnightsun Member

    Even if i have no time to play this game needs still some serious work in game concepts. Baslancing etc. Right now its early access people still write negative reviews due to the issues. I have and had a good time. I dont mind to spend some money if i feel i will enkoy lo gterm a ga me and recognize the work of the programmers. I play and plated quite a bit of wot . If tou spend money to be a bit quicker or having something cool looking thats fine by me. Pay to win not i a m not cannon fodder for paying customers. This early seriously chargingmoney will kill the g ah me in its infancy. Even if we are small stakesholders we give or gave the game a chance. Expecting even resets unvalnce. We whine etc. Still this game needs a critical mass of players. I doubt now that it will achieve it with some kind if paywall for playable content

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