Some Simple Courtesies in Beta

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Vesuvius_SWIE, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. Heinous

    Heinous New Member

    I would also like to suggest adding an HP/LP cost to regaining on your officers upon the death of your ship (after permadeath is implemented). I feel like it will be too easy to get high level officers and never have to lose them and not be penalized for it. Maybe something based on the tier of ship and level of officer. For example, in a c3 ship it could be 10 HP/LP per officer level in order to essentially "revive" that officer back. In c4, you bump it up to 25 HP/LP per officer level to revive that officer. Obviously the scale im using is an example but I do believe you should have to cough up some HP/LP whenever you lose your ship if you want to retain your officer so at least there could be some drawback to losing your ship. There should be some sort of price to pay as well instead of just waiting 2 1/2 days.
    ben likes this.
  2. ben

    ben Member

    No additional marker on the ship. This will expose it as a higher priority target perhaps?
  3. ben

    ben Member

    Oh and this is courtesy in beta thread. ...... to that.... if a trainer or high level.pilot escape with his ship and leaves lower levels behind. He she should.immediately return in lower tier ship to offer as sacrifice or shield against ai for comrades left behind.
  4. JBHemlock

    JBHemlock New Member

    I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think there's a game balance problem that discourages the sort of courtesies that you talk about here, Ves. The game as it sits right now has a straight power curve as you rise in ship tiers. All else being equal, a T4 can take a T3, a T5 can take a T4, etc. It's true that a skilled T3 pilot can be very hard to kill and hits very hard against larger ships, but that's not the case for new players. In addition, this power curve continues into larger ships - a T5 has an even easier time taking out a T3. A T6 even more so.

    The result of this is a situation where anyone who's been playing the game for a while won't have a problem taking out a new player (who will be in a small ship, by definition, and not have the officer/captain skills to let them use it effectively). Which, I think, is what led to you posting this thread asking people to not curbstomp new players this way. It still happens, though, and it happens quite a lot. I was talking to Wargasm a little, and they pointed out that there's an achievement in game for 500 player kills. Since new players are by far the easiest targets, this translates into the game itself encouraging experienced players to target new players.

    This is a game balance issue that other games run into all the time. You see it readily in PVP games - even simple old school ones like mafia, where players have a tier that's tied to their score, and they don't get points for killing people in a tier that's much lower than theirs. I think this game has to address that issue to avoid experienced players driving away new players.

    Some possibilities:
    • Player kills don't count unless the other player is at least 2 levels lower than you, or more
    • Ship weapons do full damage against other ships of the same or greater tier, but do progressively worse damage against lower tier ships*
    • Increase the size restrictions for sectors to encourage more like-sized battles**
    • Give an honor point bonus for taking a sector with a new player***
    • Add PVE missions for new players that let them train up a few officer points in small ships, so that they at least won't be completely disadvantaged when facing experienced players
    * I love this idea, personally. I feel it would encourage mixed size fleets, because you'd need to bring along small ships in order to deal with the enemy small ships
    ** This exists right now, but it's not enough. Perhaps 6-cap to T4, 8-cap to T5, 10-cap to T6, etc. There are too many sectors right now which are pointless for a new player to try to take because one enemy can bring a ship 3-4 tiers higher than yours and it's simply game over
    *** This could be interesting because it would encourage experienced players to fleet with new players.

    This is a fun game. It's a really fun game. But we can all admit that the learning curve is steep. Learning how to fight in a single ship is just the start. Then there's learning fleets. Learning what the sector caps mean, and how to use that information. Figuring out strategies for choosing hexes to take out. I think that's what keeps us all in this game, but it does present a barrier for new players. Implementing game balance features to help new players survive and enjoy themselves while they learn will encourage them to stick with it. As it is, I see too many new names that pop up once and then disappear, and I suspect it's because they get tired of going into a sector and getting destroyed without any chance of victory. Since experienced players typically go first, new players often can't even escape the sector, adding the insult of losing all their officer progress (if they're making a futile attempt to level a free T3 ship) or facing a timer where they can't use their ship (for anything else) to the injury of ship loss. Since they only can promote their officers if they win sector battles, this creates a discouraging wall that makes playing the game akin to playing a multi-month game of monopoly. If you aren't there on day one, and you don't get some early wins under your belt, you're going to be at a large disadvantage for the whole game.
  5. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    Any other players' thoughts on this? Though right now my hands are tied on anything that requires programmers, since they have 'departed'....

    -Player kills don't count -- I'd modify that to level 0-1 player kills don't count, because the difference between a Nova Commander and a 5 star captain isn't that much.
    -Ship weapons damage -- too complicated to implement, at least for a long time when it comes to programmers
    -Size restrictions -- it has already been tweaked like crazy, it would require a whole new level of implementation by re-writing the code to modify it further
    -New player assists -- that is a good one
    -A 'boss battle' PVE to give a ship an officer bonus might be another good one.
  6. ben

    ben Member

    what ever we do,,,,,

    if we take away the aspects and strategies of what is intended to be, a MMO, we will kill it.
    much of what happens now is because of the low player base, and everything aside,
    that is JUST because some people are so desperate to prove themselves,
    they kill newbies and then blame "real war" or it "happened to me" stuff.
    NEWS FLASH, this is a game, and only sickos pass on a curse or pain that occurred to them.

    ANY player who kills newbie WITH OUT any concern or remorse AND HONESTLY says,,,i dont care I love killing newbies-------is fine, ( a but head as well)---- you can be a super aggressive player and a scourge of the wars, JUST be HONEST about it, and the player group will adjust and eventually they will cut you down and REALLY enjoy it, just like you did them. Your name will strike fear , but also direct response by the legends of the game and YOU will the one hunted.

    Player kills don't count Vr's level,,,,,,GREAT idea, based on captain skill level?,maybe three levels? 2? maybe tiered 1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 4-7, 5-9,,,,

    ship weapon damage,,,,,,, bad idea because some players have really cool and powerful little ships
    Size restrictions ,,,,, SO MUCH work required to adjust and again the intent is MMO, so it evens out WHEN we (the lovers of game, have built our teams)
    New player assist,,, brilliant,,,,,,
    PVE,,,, yep, multiple Enemy ai of lower tiers first, then similar tier, then multiple similar tier, then higher tier and then multiple higher tier

    1-3, 2-4, 3-5, 4-7, 5-9 (hopefully you can see risk and reward in this which allows for a high tier player to be challenged yet still receive rewards for cheecky buggers who push their own skill by taking you on, but prevent you from winning rewards for been a bully?)
  7. Baalrog

    Baalrog Member

    I agree with the courtesies to new players - the problem for me is more practical.

    I can only see if it is a new player after i jumped in to defend (same if they jump in while i attack). Then the question is if the new guy realizes he is in over his head and jumps out sooner rather than later. If he tries to jump out i usually let them go since it doesnt matter for a defense - attack well...the cap points are nice so decision is more situational though letting them live to keep more veteran players from jumping in is also worth thinking about.
    If he attacks me while i am defending and keeps doing that instead of leaving after one round then i usually proceed to killing them. If they beg off i let them jump out.

    The other thing though - it seems most of the new players arent going to the newbie server first so .... bad choices make for rude awakenings :)

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