Proposed Change - Targetting

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Xeen Dread, Jun 10, 2020.

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Would you want to see the Targeting skill changed like this?

  1. Yes, awesome.

    66.7%
  2. Nope.

    33.3%
  1. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Warning: Moderately programmer intensive.

    IMO: The old targeting 'one weapon once per round' chance to disable a weapon on hull-struck arc was better than the current 'all weapons for one round once per sortie' mechanic we have now. Mostly irrelevant, just my thoughts.

    Proposal: Plain and sweet, make targeting a passive increase to the base chance to hit systems/components/crew on a respective arc.

    Example: With a race that has 100% targeting (5 ranks, its an investment worth consideration) and dealing at least a 10 damage shot for maximum chance to engines, the base 20% chance to damage engines would be doubled to 40%. Similarly, the proposed new targetting would work vs. weapons, crew, shields, scanners.

    This would give value to the skill and weight to choices of ship and crew point allocations. Currently, I don't think anyone really uses this skill excepting a few lulz... Why would you give up other alternatives that always work, especially when long battles are concerned, in order to maybe disable weapons on an enemy/defense platform if you hit them, break shields, and hopefully do so before their turn (and thus use the weapons before damage, then repair them in next round before needed again).

    @Vesuvius_SWIE we love you :p

    Comments welcome
     
  2. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    If you add consistency to targeting, it becomes OP. every weapon you break, crew you kill and mind you damage is less repair points going to hull and engine for the enemy next allocation. drag out the fight and it will pile up really fast. best way for this is probably a cool down timer. but "timer" only exist for dead ships and waiting on galaxy map...
     
  3. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Debatable entirely ;) And that's the point!

    For clarity, define what you mean by consistency? We already have consistency at 20%.

    With the changes, you would have to choose between better targeting (from 10% first rank for any race up to a 30-100% bonus depending on race) or other useful upgrades. No longer will targeting be a complete afterthought in comparison to other available skills. Also, 20% chance to damage engines is already fairly consistent when being shot with 5-10 weapons. Expected 2 (0-4) engine hits. My proposed change would increase the base chance of hitting systems (so a 4 damage hit with an 8% chance to full rear becomes 16% chance), it does not guarantee a system hit. These changes would also add diversity to the races and ships, some will have a way of increasing their damages through 'critical hits targeting' and tend towards that style, while other races play more like 'their race' and less like 'everyone else'.

    Reminds me of another topic I want to bring up about the broken hull-gated engine damage shots, finishing hits, additional damages received from engine hits, etc. IMO the old system of taking engine + hull damage was better than the current system where you take either engine OR hull damage. Currently, if you are hit in the engines, there is zero additional repair penalty, and that's just stupid. Engines are a critical component. Get shot in a weapon, system, crew, you have to spend more points to repair those things + the hull. Get shot in the engine, its still 1:1 repair. So if you have a lot of repair points, its actually better to face your rear to incoming fire, which is just absurd.

    @Blingon Are you withholding your vote for now? I think I have it so votes can be changed. Haven't seen you vote yet.
     
  4. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    consistency as in permanently boosting base rate you can fry subsystems. its too powerful, especially on some assult ships and most of the maal ships with too many PDC. if i don't see the idea i want, which is a cool down timer for allocation skills, so i don't vote. i have my fantastical version of how these things should be, but i will reserve those to myself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  5. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Mala ships are way light on the damage compared to other ships and high on utility + they don't go up much from 4 to 7. Mala will do around 26-40 damage across these tiers on a single ship where other factions can get more on one ship + bring AI.

    The most DC's any mala ship has is 4x 3-5 range max and 1 or 2 dmg. At best, one would have a max of 2 dmg and 4%->8% chance of dealing 2 engine damage with augmented 100% targeting. Scary. Not to mention Mala ships specializing in targeting wouldnt be able to use overload or other critical skills due to the 5 skill point requirement. Choices. All about making the choices difficult because each is viable.

    Right now, targeting is useless. Make it useful instead of a joke that isn't worth considering. Tac + Rotation + Dmg Boost + DMA 12 + Ion 123 (used to be 4) + Evasion 12 = 10 points. That's about how you would build almost any mala ship now. What 5 points would you give up to get this too-strong targeting, as you say? Evasion is kinda crappy, especially on non-shadow (which are crap to begin with AND cost a shitload of credits to unlock), so I could give that up. Pick 3 more. Ion nerf sucks and made choosing points into not really a choice ><. 10 points for 10 picks as is. 10 out of 19 if there's a worthwhile targeting and overload.

    Overload is also useless cost vs effect, something else I'm proposing to change as you saw.

    There's no reason to not share how you think the skill should work.
     
  6. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    Maal ships from t3-7 are designed to hit like that, according to Ves. they do normal amount of damage compared to most sol/gen ships but is fragile so it punish player for making mistakes. being able to carry AI into combat would be a legit argument if sol/gen AI has hive AI level of aggression. As it stands, the best thing they can hope to achieve right now is zoning, and that is with significant investment in an combat AI.
    the issue with PDC and making a permanent version of targeting is targeting percentage is additive instead of a multiplier. it does not matter if its only doing 2 damage, as long as it hit a hull, it will shut down a gun. easiest way to buff targeting is to make it 2 levels with 1 level at 50% and max at 100%. i would also note here targeting might be bugged, as on the turn a ship use it, targeting seems to apply the same chance of sub system hits for any incoming enemy fire. more testing is needed as i am the only guy that ever ran it as a way to shut down PDC. I only observed this 5 times but all 5 times have consistent result of getting hit in the rear and frontal guns dying.this is consistent with the result of targeting landing on ships.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  7. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Well with what I'm proposing, it wouldn't work like that at all. Targeting would be overhauled completely, a big change. It would be multiplied, not added.

    Same with guns as engines, if you do a 2 damage hit to a weapon-bearing arc, you would have a 2% (or whatever the current chance is per damage) chance doubled to 4% chance to damage a weapon on that arc with 100% targeting. Targeting would no longer be specific to disabling weapons, and would not affect systems on any arc except the one hit.
     

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