Proposed Change - Overload

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Xeen Dread, Jun 10, 2020.

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Do you want to see Overload changed?

  1. Yes, this sounds interesting and creates a lot of combat dynamic and balance to the skill.

    66.7%
  2. No, I like the way it works as is.

    33.3%
  1. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Warning: This one will require HEAVY programmer resource.

    Overload is too powerful in the low tiers and useless in the uppers, especially with certain ships and weapons. The skill has been reworked a number of times because of this and past synergies with other skills.

    1-Overload should not be usable with missiles. This makes no sense to begin with. The skill is described as 'beam overload' in game at least in one place. Descriptions may vary. Electronic systems can be overloaded irl (been there, lol), but may/will result in damage to equipment. Missiles are NOT overloadable.. You would just be firing a different missile, which may require a different launcher if it is larger and have different range/acc, and then why not use those all the time?! makes no sense. Then you open up the debate of limited ammunition supply, etc.

    2-Overload must have cost(s) associated with it:
    2A-Overload should damage the weapon when fired
    2B-Overload should cost additional power for the additional damage

    3-Make overload work something like the old innate +beam charge limit PASSIVE, no longer a 1-off once per sortie skill but something that is usable at will any time if the captain decides to invest the power and risk damaging the weapon for the reward/damage bonus

    4-Additional considerations:
    4A-power cost per additional charge TBD, possibly use existing scales 111122223333 etc
    4B-Charge limit TBD, could be 4 skill ranks+ 25% 50% 75% 100% of base weapon charge, rounded up
    4C-Chance to damage weapon based on amount of overcharge TBD, could be 100%/ portion of overload charges used, so a weapon with 4 overload charges using 2 would have a 50% chance to be damaged or just an outright 'any weapon with even 1 overload charge becomes damaged'
    4D-Weapon damaged as a result of overload may require repair + be unusable in the next round even when repaired, something like how hive mind KO disables ship for a round even when mind is repaired (just an idea-r)

    Overall, turn overload into something sensible/realistic that applies well to all ships and tiers, requires a decision with costs (power/movement), and has risks (being slow/component damage) for the reward instead of an 'i win' button. Could re-enable the paired used of overload with other skills if these changes are made.

    I think I got most of my thoughts down on this one. I have a feeling discussion is required to cover everything and for understanding purposes.

    @Vesuvius_SWIE we love you :p

    Comments welcome, hell, required since its a bunch of ideas at once concerning Overload. Not going to try to cover all options in the poll. Leave your thoughts about disabling use with missile weapons and various considerations.
     
  2. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    that poll option, its bias. present your benefits in the selection that match your view and a simple and none informative "nope" in the other.

    The other side of this argument is, The current overload is a clean, simple and effective skill best used with cost efficient weapons like the missile. It is not a "I win" button and it is the only burst damage option for some races. Maal been the only race with all beam weapons, while they have the option of overload, it is not cost efficient compared to a fission missile. so if they are gimped in this way, they more than make up for it with "range advantage". overload has many application for large ship engagements, such as granting higher chance to damage engine, knocking out hive creatures, let overlord break shields to drop pods and provide a damage boost when sinking t8+ ships, etc, etc.


    If i am applying your argument here to some other allocation skills, rally/ion boost/rage should stun the ship the turn after cause exhaustion, over taxed engine or hive creature is hungry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  3. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    For the Rage/Rally/Ion:

    Ya, maybe they should.

    Stress engines does cause damage, but has become obsolete with not being able to use weapons during stress. Then there's DMA2 that gets you out quick no matter what, far better than stress engines. So it can't be used for a fight or for flight, shadowed by another skill. I aim to balance skills, create a faction-flavor, and also make choices more difficult because each option has its benefits and nothing is garbage. Stress Engines needs some kinda love >< Who uses that anymore? Maybe a temporary spec-out skill until you get DMA2??

    There could be a penalty such as -init in the following round after using rally/rage (like adrenal fatigue). Ion Boost is smaller and would have less penalty if any. I don't think Ion is complete, nor is Rage. They are both clones of Rally and do the same exact thing excepting that Ion Boost has max 1 rank instead of 2 for the damage bonus. Trying to diversify the factions with changes ;)

    For Overload:

    Too many options to go through for the poll. That's what comments are for, and I said it in the post.

    Overload like other forms of damage bonuses are far too powerful at the low tiers. Bonuses enabling up to 5 or 6 damage for a single energy charge are what I'm talking about. 1 power = 6 damage, then another 3 power for 3 more. With overload you can get an extra 12 damage or more for no cost. 1-turn kills are bad, 1 hit kills are just stupid. 1 turn/hit kills while guaranteed to outrun with minimal charged weapons for max bonuses vs an unladen ship are even worse. Need to get away from that. Overload is part of that problem, or rather how overload works. That's why I want to move it to a permanent option to overload energy weapons -for a cost- and disallow use of overload with missile weapons, which makes no sense to begin with.

    Tell me, how do you overload a circuit? Send more energy through it than it was designed to handle. What happens? You get a brief surge of output exceeding normal capacity, but then you tend to damage the system. Makes sense. I'm proposing just that, spend additional energy on overload charges for additional output, cost, risk, reward.

    Now tell me how you 'overload' a missile??

    Another topic for another thread: Damage bonuses should be capped per charge level of the weapon and/or be converted to % bonuses (Rounding applies).

    For example, if you have a weapon that has max 2 charges and you only spend 1 charge on it, you can only receive 1 officer dmg bonus 1 range bonus and max 1 'other' bonus like from rally. Fully charging a weapon enables full use of bonuses. I'd have to go into more detain to explain the system, not the place for it.
     
  4. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    i can spin back ground story to a skill too! your officer is trained to carry a 1 time use launch system for rapid deployment of 3 war heads at a time! you over-load the system.

    you are trying to turn something that is burst damage to a weapon version of shield overcharge. unfortunately, pvp in this game revolves around burst performance +damage and taking it away would grant too much advantage to certain races. it would also render a lot of ships obsolete. a lot of people is already turned off by the fact overload is one use and have to recharge in dock. its not a brainless choice both on getting it for a ship and using it in battle. the whole ban it with missile is a terrible idea. you should be saying missile ships are the only one that can use the current overload properly. it almost sounds like you are bias toward it. you can however make an solid argument against lower tier ships running overload, if the game ever reach player base to see 8 class 3s in a fac8, overloading for 160+ damage a turn. but you be suprise how hard it is to convince people to wolf pack with missileboats, lol. the only people that can cry about getting killed via overload are maal, but then again, not many ships can kill them using that method. at the same time, overload is the most consistent way to kill maal ships, especially for Sol, who don't have rally2. its almost like a necessary evil

    you also meed to realize, changing anything more than numerical data in an existing mechanic is gonna sound like a fantasy. like a symmetrical firestorm cruiser. god the ship is ugly, its triggers OCD, just like battalion. its like some idiot tried to make a ship and ran out of cash half way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  5. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I've tried to teach people about the powers of the corvette wolfpack as well :p

    Pound for pound, they deliver more damage than any other ship (Talking Faction Limit points vs dmg output. 8 C3's can do more damage than a C10, not even using overload)
     

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