Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Vesuvius_SWIE, Aug 15, 2017.

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  1. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    Good idea on the civi ships, but I have to agree with xeen, the transition is killing me. Plus during allocation I can't repair because of all the messages. I have thought before the transition is wrong; instead of a cutscene showing the ship and allowing the other players to see where the ship is entering from, how about a list with capt. name and type of ship?

    It just froze on me at the end of allocation:(
  2. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    Will these ships count towards control of the sector, if destroyed? here is a screenshot of what is in that sector now,lol

    Tried to go in again. Froze after allocation again. game is currently unplayable:((

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  3. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    DEFINITELY SOME MAJOR BUGS with the new NPC ships. For now, the game is made somewhat unplayable, but that is the first pass of course.
    Some things the programmers will need to fix:

    -NPC ships should not count as ships in the region limits
    -NPC ships should never warp in on a contested area
    -NPC ships should only be encountered in battle if they are in the region already.

    The AI director has somehow confused the NPC ships with regular ships, and since their ratings are extremely low (1-3XP), it stuffs the region with hordes of them. I'm hoping that the programmers will be able to fix this over the weekend, and have it back to normal on Monday.
  4. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    Nice to see some of fixes already in, good to have the programmers working on a Saturday. The NPC ships will not attempt to enter a map that is in combat. If it's already in a map when combat starts, it will attempt to leave and will also end its turn promptly.
  5. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    seems fine now

    Found a couple of typos first on marine officer slaughter says "no not go" me thinks it should be "do not go".
    Secondly the first honor type 2 says first brother instead of first honor in the remarks.

    -Things that I can fix; should reflect on the next update. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2017
  6. JansenC

    JansenC Member

    Also on the Genari side when you're going to the galaxy map, it says LP (leadership points) on top, when it should be HP (honor points)
  7. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Just remembered I was robbed of seeing the Genari Victory ending because I was testing and toying around, intentionally not winning :p

    @Vesuvius_SWIE Can you reset my character/account so I can pick Gen?
  8. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    WTB option to go rogue/pirate and kill own faction members.

    -How do you kill your own faction members other than exploding enemies near them? -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2017
  9. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    LOL. Went to have supper with my family.

    However had I known you would switch I would have went with the other side
  10. SirSprout

    SirSprout New Member

    The NPC ships, if you want to zoom into them, their center axis is too high up, so you can't really view them up close.
  11. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I was jokingly wishing there was a way to directly target your own faction members, knowing that will probably never happen.

    Amish wasn't paying attention to chat when I was trying to tell him that he was severely disrupting my training with his actions + being so slow and I'd rather he went to any of the 20+ other maps to fight on instead of coming to the map I was training on. Shooting people generally gets their attention/gets them chatting pretty fast.

    It's something that will have to be dealt with at a later time and concerns me: What do you do about your own faction members, that for one reason or another (from just plain slow, unresponsive/afk, poor connection to intentional trolling, disruptive, espionage, or even cheating), you would rather not have them on your team with nothing you can do about it.

    -There is an admin option to disconnect a player, suspend, and even ban. Though players would be reporting the abusers. I would be directly involved in the day to day happenings on the server, even playing as an observer. -Vesuvius

    No worries, looks like I might be playing some PoE for a bit since my gf and some of her friends want to get into it again. I'll be keeping an eye on Space Wars and playing still when I can :) (not so easy to test or report/document bugs while at work, will make notes here on the bug/build thread)

    [Eidt: Forgot to throw a huge one in there: Killstealing, since the game is based entirely off of damage and even more so last-hits for rewards + people following you around as a high level because you have high level AI defenders ... that last part will be resolved when AI defenders caps at tier 4 and the game is pvp for the vast majority]

    Thought: Kill bounty should be given to all remaining players/ships on the map according to how much [hull?] damage they dealt leading up to the kill.

    If one person does 70% of the damage and another did 20% and someone else on a light ship stacks initiative and enough power to do the last 10% of the hull damage for a kill, then the kill bounty is split 70 20 10, regardless of who got the last hit so long as all participants are still alive and operating in the area. This is by far the fairest solution that would actually promote teamplay to KO ships quickly for both the bounty and the tactical advantage of focused fire, eliminating threats as quickly as possible instead of playing man to man so that each person gets what they worked for (if such a cooperating can be achieved).

    -Definitely something I plan to implement, though take note that on smaller ships it wouldn't be much of a thing, its more on killing high tier ships that this would be a critical task. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2017
  12. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    To "king xeen", chat was obviously not working correctly or I would have responded. Next time I will not "bother" you......... much, your highness:rolleyes:

    Vesuvius, something may be wrong with chat, besides not seeing what xeen was sending, I have tried to chat with others also with no response.

    -When I come in, I'll test it with you. Though remember there is faction chat and general chat, if its an opposing faction, they won't see it if you're in faction chat. And of course, there's those who don't notice the chat, or aren't very chatty. -Vesuvius

    Two good things, killed the engines on a Bengbu and the rest of the damage went into hull. Also got my first NPC kill, it actually gave me 2 capture points.

    -Cool that you caught one, I haven't been able to yet, they flee before I can get close. But yes, they will give 1-2 capture points for kill. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2017
  13. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    A small update today with fixes and a major Genari balancing change:


    • Fixed an issue with ship callouts that wasn't always correctly taking the target ship’s evasion value into account when displaying hit chance.
    • The callouts for weapons will now display the decimal values for accuracy instead of rounding.
    • Ships and structures already in the detection range will now properly be detected instead of only when they move.
    • Fixed a section of the Genari tutorial narration that didn’t match the text being displayed.
    • Custom names for ships will now persist on the specific ship variant that was named through both ship destruction. Note: Any existing custom names will be lost following this update.
    • More restrictions have been added to the power bar sliders for ship systems for both Sol and Genari tutorials to prevent incorrect power allocation.
    • Accuracy % modifier from skills are now multiplied into the base accuracy instead of being a flat added % increase.
    • The power cost scaling for all Genari beam weapons has been rebalanced.
      • 1,2,3,4 bars = Green 1 power cost
      • 5,6,7,8 bars = Yellow 2 power cost
      • 9 bar = Red 3 power cost
  14. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    So I have found a couple of things I think. When in the large map chat box cuts some of the text off. have to go to small map to see all of it. ALso I just tried rally offensive, it didn't work. No extra damage, and I missed a 95% shot with it, lol, so I guess 20% extra accuracy didn't work either.

    -I've noticed that chat box issue too. What resolution are you running? -Vesuvius

    Also marines are giving incorrect amounts of crew damage. I have first upgrade so I should be doing 2-11 instead getting 2-17? is that a bug?

    -No, not a bug, Genari Marines are worth 5 strength points each, Sol Crew 3. Its not 1-1, more like 5-3. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2017
  15. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    It's too late, you already destroyed the last drone :p
  16. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Gen hulls and scalar repair would be appealing, if and when. I only play them because I want to see the Gen victory ending :p

    A 40% base accuracy missile + 50% sucks at a final 60% accuracy, but additive to 90% was too powerful. Looks like Gen will focus on close in combat (improved accuracy isn't worth it, at least with some weapons that are too low to modify well) and somehow deal with reactor explosions or deliver missile damage first and then finish with lasers.

    The Gen laser change is nice, but there should be some lore or rule that applies to all as to why. Perhaps plasma beams have a higher power gradient because of their increased accuracy? If so, all regular type laser weapons on Sol ships should obey the same rules as Gen lasers/heavy lasers. At least it is possible to fully power the weapons on the top tier ships now (with max power boost) and manage to maneuver them enough to use the weapons.

    Something like the Nova II with 5x9 charge Lasers and 5x2 charge (more accurate, less damage missile variant) has a bit more appeal now. Before, it was 100 power (5x20 (1+1+2+2+2+3+3+3+3)) to charge those 5 lasers to max out of a base 104 power. +10 = 110 power, couldnt charge nova weapons to full without power boost, and then you need at the very least 2 movement points to fly through a target to then shoot missiles or 3 movement to about face.

    Now, those beams can be fully charged for 6 less power each, saving 30 power on a full charge. 5x14 = 70 + 10 for missiles = 80 of 104 base power to fully charge weapons, 24 remaining power = 3 movement. It's not much to work with, but it is functional at a bare minimum level. Power boost would help tremendously, definitely something to work towards. Unfortunately, Gen don't do so well in the shielding department, and power boost means no advanced repairs. Instead, you would have to rely on repair tenders, and the already big hulls getting a significant bonus... base repair + tenders + even advanced repair is just a drop in the bucket relative to total hull size and the amount of damage ships (or stations) do at that tier.

    Gen are pretty bad at sustaining damage. In fact, they have no advantage in any way over Sol. Sol can do better with smart shielding, but Sol and Gen have the exact same access and benefit from repair and evasion. Yes, Gen ships can/will take more damage before they go down, but their sustainable threshold is much lower than many Sol ships (Base shielding potential and science officer being the deciding factor), so they cant stay in a fight like Sol can, putting them at a significant disadvantage.

    All of this is why I said advanced repair should add a flat +1 per rank AND a % of MaxHull to repair pool. This would give Gen a very fierce, in your face assault, hull tanking style in addition to their limited shielding while Sol would favor power boost to their already better engines paired with sci officer shield boost. Gen has omni-sustain potential, though perhaps a bit lower total potential (not nearly as much of a gap as it is now) than Sol sustain. The catch is that Sol has to spend power to shields that may or may not be used while Gen ships always have repair points that can go to any damage from any angle.

    I say all of this because when you are forced to get up close to be able to use low accuracy weapons, you open yourself up to enemy attack as well as reactor explosion damage, and Gen need a way to deal with that damage. 100 120 150 or even as much as 195 power on a 30% boosted 150 colossus reactor can wreck a ship bad, even at 2 or 3 tiles away. Without good shielding potential (Sol can plan to have shields up on an arc that they will use to finish off an enemy), Gen need another way to deal with the damage.

    Looking at damage sustain for both sides under various conditions:

    Montana III 7x3 shielding = 21 + 2 repair = 23 base sustain to single surface
    Yamato II 9x3 shielding = 27 + 2 repair = 29
    Colossus 10x2 shielding = 20 + 2 repair = 22 (why the colossus has a shitty x2 shield instead of at least a x3 or even x4, idk)

    Nova 8x2 shielding = 16 + 2 repair = 18 base sustain to single surface
    No Gen ship has an x3 shield, iirc, and the Nova and Levi are very similar if not the same in terms of sustainable damage. Most everything else is way down from there.

    Maxing out repair and shield boost:

    Montana III (6+7)x3 = 39 + 12 = 51
    Yamato II (6+9)x3 shielding = 45 + 12 repair = 57
    Colossus (6+10)x2 shielding = 32 + 12 repair = 44

    Nova (2+8)x2 shielding = 20 + 12 repair = 32

    Then if you want to consider attacking a base and using expert tactics, dual-arc defenses 'riding the line' allow you to use 2 shield surfaces worth of protection, significantly advantaging the already strong Sol shields vs then equal repair capability (Sol vs Gen). Doing so would push Sol sustain to around 90 on each of the above ships (90, 102, 76, respectively) while Gen sustain is at half that at the very best (52), though spending 2 ranks on the Gen Tac for shielding probably isn't going to happen so a more likely max defense is 16x2 + 12 (44 max sustain) or only 2 repairs because the power is needed, leaving the Gen ship with a max sustain of 34.

    If Gen hulls were big and scalar repairs were in, A Gen battleship should be able to sustain about ~50 damage per round through repair supplementation, so repairs should fall around 30 points (+20 max shield). Repair mechanics would work the same for Sol, BUT since sol can take advantage of selective shielding that provides more protection (if used properly), they will most likely favor power boost to be able to use their shields and not be able to take advanced repair. Faction flavor achieved.

    Gen are great up close and personal with the damage, which they generally have in advantage over Sol's Accuracy and range, but they don't do well at all with their lower range&acc paired with their lower power, trying to get in close to maximize weapons + they get punished with no recourse for doing so. Everything is one big web of balance.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  17. AmishJoe

    AmishJoe Member

    ok for marines, didn't know that. 1920 x 1080 screen
  18. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I reported that Gen Rally is not providing damage or accuracy bonus at all. It is only giving movement points. 95% can still miss anyway :p
  19. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    Xeen: The whole idea is not that races are identical. They will have variety, and strengths/weaknesses. One last thing you will not see until the upgrades are done, is that Gen ships will have a higher armor value. So their hull points will be significantly higher.

    You're also comparing a Genari Battleship vs a Sol Battleship -- the Genari ships are 2/3 the cost of a comparable Sol ship. Consideration should also be given to the lore -- where a Genari Battleship is equivalent to a Sol Heavy Cruiser.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  20. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I get that the factions are supposed to be different and Gen ships are generally weaker and cheaper per class, and what I am proposing serves that objective: Gen favor their tanky hulls and repairs vs Sol and their shields.

    Armor as in damage reduction or simply more hit points? More hit points doesnt really do much in a long fight. It's all about what can be sustained.

    This is the heart of what I am getting at and why bigger hulls on Gen ships isn't much of a boost: Walking away from a 50 to 80 damage barrage with minimal hull damage and enough repairs to cover the rest because of shielding (Sol) vs having a bigger hull and a net loss of 50 hull points per round. The bigger hull eventually fails while the sustainable shielding does not. That's why I'm pushing for Genari faction (even though I DONT like them for other reasons) to have something in their corner, MaxHull Scalar Repairs.

    Gen Traits:
    Damage Output
    Stronger Hull
    Marine Pods
    Hull Repair? -> Hull tanking/Survival
    +Lower cost ships, Tactical Officer -Vesuvius

    Sol Traits:
    Stronger Shields
    Engine Power/Initiative
    Shield Boost -> Shield tank/Survival
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2017
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