Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Vesuvius_SWIE, Mar 22, 2017.

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  1. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    I only remember seeing higher classed ship when there are more than 1 player in the sector, before the update. But I've not played much to be sure..
  2. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I was the only person online at some times and saw higher class and multiple ships coming. I don't know which way it is supposed to work, but I liked having a stronger defense based on capture progress with no respect to the type or number of ships present.

    When there are players in the game, it will be much different. Still curious how the economy is going to work out.
  3. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    I think the biggest bug currently in the game is that it seems not possible to take over Sol sectors, or some of them?
  4. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Some of them, I did take over one recently.

    Specific sectors have been bugged before for various reasons.
  5. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Genari Tac Officer Review, [Agile Flyer] II:
    Hull 14
    Crew 88
    Power 20
    Marines 0
    Weapons (3) 2 damage frontal lasers, 6 range, 50% acc

    No skills:
    3-hex is 50% chance to hit as expected, 2 damage listed as expected, 6 range as expected

    Range Boost 1 of 1 applied: +1 Range
    Hovering over weapon reports range boost as active (always has), but still reporting base range of 6 (again, always has done this too since I started testing).
    XX 23 37 50 65 80 95% chance to hit at respective 7 to 1 hex distance
    Chance to hit was increased as expected to 50% acc at a half-range of 3.5 rounded to 4 (50% base accuracy now at 4 hex instead of 3), but unable to fire at 7 tiles out at a 10% chance to hit (XX should be 10%).

    [For all Accuracy Ranks, Range Boost Applied]
    Chance to hit improved as expected, unknown if actually truncating to next lowest integer or if the fractions are working, hidden behind the precision of the displayed number.

    Accuracy 1 of 10 applied: +5%
    XX 24 38 52 67 81 95

    Accuracy 2 of 10 applied: +10%
    XX 25 40 55 68 82 95

    Accuracy 3 of 10 applied: +15%
    *XX 26 42 58 70 82 95

    Accuracy 4 of 10 applied: +20%
    XX 27 43 60 72 83 95

    That's as far as I go, because I would likely be using 2 damage ranks and 4 overload + 1 Range +3 Acc.

    Accuracy 3 of 10 applied: +15% No Range Boost (Using a clean ship with identical weapon)
    10 26 42 58 76 95

    Accuracy 4 of 10 applied: +20% No Range Boost (Using a clean ship with identical weapon)
    **10 27 43 60 78 95

    And there you have it, it's better to get the +1 Range Boost and run 3 acc instead of a 4th rank of accuracy without boost.

    Comparing 4 skill points invested in either case (marked * and ** above)
    Accuracy 3 of 10 applied: +15% + Range Boost
    *XX 26 42 58 70 82 95

    Accuracy 4 of 10 applied: +20% No Range Boost
    **00 10 27 43 60 78 95

    Your accuracy is far greater with the range boost benefit, and you would be able to shoot 1 tile further at 10% chance if it was working fully (the XX should be 10% where 00 is no possible shot)

    Time for work, end of log for now :p
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  6. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    During free movement, ship can first teleport to the intended destination, then move involuntarily for some hexes, then teleport back to original start point and move to the destination again. Confusing..
    It seems weird that ship junks cannot be traveled through, but enemy ships can be. Traveling through enemy ships do favor Genari, otherwise Sol will get overpowered, but I'm just thinking its weird logic.
    Suggestion for an 'autofire' button where u click it, then click on a target to fire in weapon order. Otherwise the chore of repetitive clicking will bore players, especially those with class X.. might even not have enough time to finish it if chatting or thinking.
  7. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Ghost movement is fun :p

    It moves you on the course you set, but sometimes you snap to your destination and then begin moving.

    Genari suck either way, and while I agree that movement and weapon animations/delays do consume a lot of your combat time, it is quite possible to use a Class X in the given amount of time. Hotkeys for activating weapons and using the tab key to fire at target (works well when you only have 1 possible target) makes your turn fairly quick.

    Said the same exact thing about being able to travel 'through' ships but not debris.
  8. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    This is a particularly annoying bug. If any of you Genari players can tell me which sectors are 'uncapturable', I will report them to the programmers.
  9. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Just flipped a tile back to Genari. Did not appear to lock in zone, but was locked on galaxy map. Only ever encountered occasional Class III defenders
  10. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    Vega1 (Wasted a class X to find that its unconquerable :S) No ships arrive after 50:0
    G-1601 (Killed 5 ships today at 50:0, still no change)
    G-1602 (Killed 2 ships today at 50:0, still no change)
    Maybe S-1001 has issue, because it has been lightning red for a week.

    After clicking a destination to use some of the move points, it is possible for the ship to move to the destination first. Then it will automatically use up more points to move to where the mouse is pointing to, without clicking.
    It is possible when selecting own ship by clicking on it, it does an automatic rotation of 1 unit.
    My ship hull has 62 points. If it got repaired to 61 points, the next time round, it can't seem to get back to 62. Only when it got damaged can it get repaired back to 62.
    Is Rally Offensive not working?

    I got an enemy ship +2 lvl higher, and -1 lvl lower coming at me simultaneously near the end of the sector takeover of S-915. Another nearby sector, I have enemy ships of same lvl coming faster at the end. I guess u can get this kind of stuff nearer to enemy star system.

    -So I visited G-1601 as Sol, and it was under Genari control, even though it shows on the map as sol-controlled. There was a mine present there, and once I destroyed it, Genari reinforcements started arriving. I think something about that mine staying in place triggered that bug.
    -As for S-1001, that is an interesting case, it shows as controlled by sol, but when I went there, it was genari controlled and getting reinforcements. I stayed there fighting till I took out about 4 corvettes. I'm going to make reports on these regions, as these capture control bugs are pretty important to figure out. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  11. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Vega 1 is a station sector, and there is actually a Vega II there as well, but the opposing faction is not yet able to access alternate sectors within a tile.

    The 2 next to the Genari (Ghazeh or something) station are bugged and uncapturable.

    The defenders that come seem to depend on what attacking ship numbers and classes are are present as well as the progress of the capture bar, though I've had some few and far between defenders and Class III only at that show up.

    The highest defenders I've seen are Class VI, barring stations X XII and XIII

    -So I've finally been given the tool needed in the galaxy map editor to set system priorities (which basically allows an enemy to attack a star system, forcing them to attack the outermost region, then the next and so on) which will then allow for that system to be completely taken over. It will also allow us to see the endgame, when the homeworld region is captured. I've implemented this in the large map that I've been working on (which is actually finally done by the way -- but want a few more bugs like beam drones fixed) so when the large map comes into play, you'll be able to hit and take out the star systems. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  12. BlueMaro

    BlueMaro New Member

    I can confirm that G-1601 and G-1602 capture bars don't move either.
  13. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member


    Balance/Mechanic/Math Issue:

    With the game rounding lots of numbers, it is easy to shave a few points if you know what you are doing, but you can just as easily lose out on bonuses too.

    Weapon accuracy @ Half-range seems to round up, not use the actual half-range in decimal format.

    I need your help testing this, but drawing from my memory and observations of being on either team...

    Scenario 1 (Montana III for example):
    Base weapon range 13
    Base accuracy 80
    Half range = 6.5 = 7
    At 7 range, you get 80% accuracy
    Add Range Boost
    Half range = 7, you still get 80% accuracy

    Scenario 2 (Agile Flier II/IV for example)
    Base weapon range 6
    Base Accuracy 50
    Half range = 3
    At range 3, you get 50% accuracy
    Add Range Boost
    Half range = 3.5 = 4, you now get 50% accuracy at range 4 and increased accuracy at all ranges barring minimum and maximum chances to hit)

    Either case should (if the fix is working) get a range extension of 1 hex, but lets face it, firing at max range is pointless at 10% chance to hit. Sure, go for it if you have absolutely nothing else to do.

    The big issue: Due to precision and rounding, any weapon that has an odd base range will gain no accuracy improvement from the skill while any weapon that has an even base range will double dip on benefit from the skill.

    Same thing applies to the apparent rounding down of chance to hit after modification by Accuracy skill

    50% + 5% should be 52.5% chance to hit (yeah the little numbers matter), not 52%.

    I think some calculations in the game would best be done using full decimal values (and have them displayed accordingly) rather than normal rounding, rounding up/down [Cieling/Floor], or truncating.

    At least go to tenths :p

    These are just a couple of recent examples in my mind, there are likely more scenarios involving precision errors.

    -Things like range have to be round numbers of course, can't be decimals. But rounding up is a better idea than rounding down, and I think its a good idea for skill modifications if that is the case. So even if it is 3.2 hex range, it would be rounded up to 4 hex range. These are the micro modifications that are 'tweaks' in my opinion later in the development process when all the game breaking and quality of life bugs are eliminated. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  14. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    Firestorm X7, has half its graphics model undrawn.

    -That is the design of the ship, read the description/lore. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  15. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I thought that was intentional (asymmetric) and that's why I avoided it. It would be a poor design for mass balance and maneuvering :p

    I don't like the asymmetric look

    -The whole idea is to have unique looking ships, with original design. I think the ship looks just fine :) -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  16. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Sol Battle and Space stations seem to be worth an unusually low bounty.

    Also sitting here for 2+ 'time capture' ticks of 5 points with no reinforcements.

    Edit: No reinforcements ever after killing the station.

    -So I'm figuring some things out -- if there aren't any enemy stations nearby, it takes longer to get reinforcements, if at all. The closer there is a station, the more frequent the reinforcements. I personally don't mind that much, because in a real game its going to be real players all over the place, and weakened shipyards should be a goal of the opponent. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  17. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Very displeased with the pace of combat and being forced to stop every time I encounter an entity as well as waiting on weapons.

    -If you mean enemy ships, its important that you do stop when you detect an enemy, as you may change your tactical decisions. But in the case of environments stopping you, that is a bug for now, and needs fixing. -Vesuvius

    Takes way too much time out of the turn to watch animations and start/stops. Several seconds per weapon fired x 10 weapons is half your turn wasted...

    -Exceptional cases like Battleships and Dreadnoughts are not going to be common, and believe it or not, your ship movement is intentionally slower with the bigger ships. Its game flavor, I don't plan on changing that. -Vesuvius

    Gave orders to move in the distance, but oh no, saw something right there and get shot in the ass by a space station because I burned too much time for another command and I was forced to stop upon detecting something 9 hex away after turning around.

    Not the first time saying this, but the first time actually being hit because of it. I could tell it was bad to have combat play so slowly and jerky within the limited time we have... now, exactly what I knew could go wrong happened as a result of the game design, not my choices... Not fun in a tactical game!

    -One FYI though, there is a 'game speed' setting on the server that can be changed at any time, which speeds up everything (or slows it down). Right now its at 0 (normal). -Vesuvius

    60 seconds is a good amount of time to have for a turn and no more, especially considering 20-40 people may be participating in a battle! (ok its nuts to think a single round will take up to 40 minutes... maybe we should have 30 second turns, which only goes to further support my claims that the pace of combat is way wayyyy slow)

    -Hence why there is a limit of 5 ships per side for now (but can max out at 20 per side). Actually depending on map size the limits change. The standard 25x25 or 30x30 hex maps happen to be max of 3 per side, but we've left everything at 5 for now -Vesuvius

    -Ships need to move, start, and stop faster. A lot faster. Yes, there can be differences associated with class progression, but across the board, 4x faster would be about right. (spend 1/4 the time watching ship move/start/stop)
    -Weapons animations and associated combat delay needs to be cut in half or more. (spend 1/2 the time watching weapons fire)
    -We need an option to not stop every time we detect something!

    The last problem would be greatly alleviated simply by speeding up movement (the first point).

    -Game speed option for server can make that 2 or 4 x faster for sure. I can ask the programmers to make it 2x for now and see what happens. -Vesuvius

    Extremely slow pace of combat, unresponsiveness, and long rounds will be a huge turnoff during large scale pvp.

    It doesn't seem bad with 1 to 4 people, but when you start mixing in AI and imagine what it would be like with 10 or 20 people, it's not pretty.

    More time spent observing, thinking, planning, and less time spent watching things happen with your precious little time.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  18. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Genari Tac scan boost appears to be working as expected.

    Genari Tac Initiative appears to not be working.

    Also getting a general error when attempting to activate skill after allocating tactical advantage, may be unrelated though.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  19. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    So I sat in G-1601 and no reinforcements came (even though it showed controlled by Genari, but on galaxy map shows controlled by Sol) - so I sat until the 5 points took it all the way to 50 points for my side. Now that lightning bolt is gone. Something about that mine being left seems to have triggered that bug. G-1602 seems to have the same issue, and as sol if you clear the area and take control of it, it will become truly captured by Sol, then recapturable by Gen.
  20. canbeen

    canbeen Member

    I think there was a X4-6 Sol ship from a player stuck in S-1001 last week for a few days, causing the lightning. It is unattackable, but keep attracting Gen AI ships to generate and those ships eventually die by the poison gas. I think it's gone when your guys updated the game.
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