A generalized game plan to Hive

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by Blingon, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    After much thought into what approach I should use to write a guide for up coming Hiver players, I have decided it is better to talk about macro-strategy and long term fleet composition instead of going into detail on all the hive creatures.

    Reason is this, hive creatures are diverse and complex, it would just confuse new comers. However I would use 4 different categories for the sake of this article.

    Type1: general purpose.

    This type would include all the hive creatures that fit into the standard template of each Class. This would include normal ( neolith, monolith, entity, greater entity,etc), bloated, agitated and spirals. They share similar offensive appendages and have similar roles in a fleet. They are the mid range, general purpose creature that also serve as the main tender of the fleet.

    Type 2: Bursting

    This type only appears up to class 6 and plays the role of close range attacker, scouts and defensive escorts. They only carry plasma wave appendages, which are omni-directional when used by an AI or when used on counter fire. Because of the efficient power to damage ratio, these creatures are very fast and have lots of movement when used as an AI.

    Type 3: Focused, Bomber and Demolisher

    These are the staple long range attack creature of the hive faction. They are used for destroying stations and long range AI. They tend to be fragile. They are also actually really slow when used by a player. Bomber and Demolishers are fairly mobile as an AI and will likely get their shots in if they have scanner lock on something.

    Type 4: Megalith

    Megalith deserves its own category. It can dish out as much damage as a firestorm and have similar role to it as well. But its rather fragile for a close range creature, compared to the entity and bloated entity. Its unique quirks make is a viable choice for early harassment style gameplay.

    With Categories out of the way, lets talk about what a player should consider when playing hive

    This should be mainly based on how big do you want to play. The bigger than creature, the less fleet you can control. Hive can have up to fleet commander 4 but that is only available to Frigate or smaller creatures. Fleet 3 means you can’t get cruisers or higher, fleet 2 means no battleships or higher and fleet 1 is still available to Class 9 or higher.

    So what does this mean? It means Hive players should specialize in a faction size and invest their resources appropriate. They should be un-paralleled in their specialization. For example, if they specialized in destroyers and light cruisers. They should be winning most fights in fac 8s because they can field up to 4 light cruisers. If they are all leveled, they would be very hard to deal with. They should also consider how they would fair in other maps. There is also the problem for big creature players on what to play before they get to the Class 9 or 10.

    Thus, I would explain my logic in fleet composition and what to make for each of the fleet commander level.
    It is important to note the firepower of Hive ships. from class 5 or higher, they have similar or higher firepower compared to sol or genari counter parts. thus there is no reason to not try and run biggest creature allowed in the highest quality possible, as you will always out number and out gun the enemy in the map size of your specialization. Lowering map spawn should be used as a method of transitioning rather than an over all strategy.

    Fleet 4:

    Frigate, Frigates and Frigates. If you can drop in to a Fac 6 with 5 class 4 creatures that are fully leveled, you deserve to win. Lower tier hive creatures are fragile and die easily. Getting 5 of them to level 5 is no easy task. But when they get there, you are looking at collective fire power of a class 8 and healing to match. You should be looking at a fleet composition that is 2 Type 2, 1-2 type 3 and probably 1-2 Type 1 with at least 1 bloated protolith. Because hive evasion does not sacrifice movement, most high tier AI should be at least evasion 3 with majority at evasion 5. Thus high level Class 4 creature should have no problems in fac 8s.

    Fleet 3:

    This would be the second most popular choice for most players. This lets you field up to 4 Class 6 creatures. This is incredible amount of fire power and flexibility. The Class 4 creature picked for fac 6s should be similar to fleet 4, but with one less Type 3 or type 2. I would advise to level at least 1 class 4 to high levels and rest to around level 2 or 3. This would let you focus mostly on the class 5 and 6 creatures. Fleet composition would include 1-2 type 2, 1-2 type 1 but only one type 3. Focused Monolith is a rather under powered creature for it class and rather slow even as an AI. The fleet 3 and 4 emphasize on being able to reposition and regroup.

    Fleet 2:

    This would be the most commonly picked fleet size. It would let a player field up to 3 class 8 creatures. While they are slightly gimped in the Fac 6s, ( and really gimped in fac 4 and lower) they should still do fine in fac 8s and will likely over power sol and genari battleships and dreadnaughts if all 3 class 8 creatures are high level. Greater Hive Entities are incredibly sturdy and pack fire power closer to a battleship. Hive demolishers are also deadly, especially if they can land the advance plasma launchers on enemy engines. While it is tempting to run an entire fleet of long range hive creatures, it is important to keep greater hive entities in the fleet for their massive healing capabilities. The long range creatures have subpar healing capabilities and will likely crumble under focused fire. Unlike other factions’s long range vessels, the hive long range creatures are not very flexible when it comes to allocating power and over all engine output. Thus, ideal fleet 2 composition is 2 Greater hive entity and 1 Demolisher. It is also important to keep 1 class 4, 1 class 5 or 6, at relative high levels for the smaller maps and transitioning to bigger creatures.

    Fleet 1:

    I would suggest the players that want to take this route to pick fleet 2 or 3 until they reach class 9 or class 10. There is not a lot of choices when it comes to final fleet composition, a Class 9 and a Class 10. You would need a Class 9 more so for the healing than the fire power. It is currently possible to use the hive queen as an AI, but it might be patched out in due time. However, that choice is limited to only 1 player in the hive faction.

    How does hive fair against little green men? who cares. they are on the other side of the galaxy and in the unlikely event they do meet, it would depend entirely on what map size they fight in.

    The fleet composition for hive will likely be changed once the proboscis mechanic gets implemented. it will likely result in more players picking close range creatures over the long range creatures and class 9 over class 10.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
    fox and Vesuvius_SWIE like this.
  2. Baalrog

    Baalrog Member

    Very nice Info Blingon. Thanks for the work you put into that.
  3. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    Had much work the past 2 month, but i was able to chip away at the hive beta summary. then i read over it, its too long and and complex, there is no way for people who have yet to play hive to digest all the information if i throw out the entire thing. So i decided to dumb down the important parts into 3 different articles. out of the 3, i think the macro-strategy and long term game plan is far more important. been able to know what to make is key to not wasting resources. A full functional hive fleet need more work than a Sol/gen counterpart.
    The other 2 sections include:
    a short look at Hive captain skill and Officer skills.

    a guide on hive AI building/CnC( command and control) during combat.

    The Hive have an emphasis on using AI. Its a very different approach compared to Sol/Gen. All the creature are tenders on top of been attackers, that include you too. how to position you and your creature defines how a battle would flow.
  4. fox

    fox New Member

    Impressive composition, thank you from all the future Hive players and, of course, the Hive slayers ; ).

    Understanding the entirety of this post is probably for a master black-belt in Hive martial arts. Diligent Vesuvius ( @Vesuvius_SWIE ) has added many more ship variants, skins, and adjusted some aspects of Hive ship characteristics/Hive pilot mechanics to balance this faction at a fair metagame. The ship cards, like a trading card for each ships accessed in a system with the "i" key while highlighting said ship or the globe icon on the top right of the system screen, are an excellent resource to explore for more information on the various ship types and classes for Hive. Study these and you may qualify for your yellow-belt or higher in the Hive martial arts. Engaging former Hive beta-testers in Off-Topic is an excellent way to provoke discussion on some of the points illustrated above ( @Blingon ). Engaging Hive sectors to fight the AI defender spawn or trying to defend vs the Hive beta-tester players are both options to explore the mechanics of the Hive menace.

    Two points of clarification. Expounding upon these may further our progression down the depths of the Hive rabbit-hole. I'm guessing some of you will chase the multicolored, pulsating rabbit further than others.

    1) "Lowering map spawn should be used as a method of transitioning rather than an over all strategy."
    This may be appropriate for another post on it's own, yet plays well into the Hive strategy significantly, especially early game. Any input from players with an inkling to expound would be appreciated.

    2) "While it is tempting to run an entire fleet of long range hive creatures, it is important to keep greater hive entities in the fleet for their massive healing capabilities."
    A brief explanation of why Greater Hive Entities (GHEs) can act as as a massive repair opportunity could sit nicely here, although it may have been explained in a separate post that I'm not going to spend time looking for atm.

    First cut, probably mistakes. Feel free to ask questions on the forums, in-game in Off-Topic chat channel, and Steam Discussion. Oh, and the SpaceWars - Interstellar Empires Discord server.

    P.S. as the current Hive beta tester says...... not "wait to shoot till you see the whites of their eyes"...... but "Shoot them in the eyes (or whatever the ocular organs are)." ie apparently the greatest chance to damage a Hive ship's Mind (crew for Genari/Sol/Ma'Alaketh) is at the front port or front starboard arcs. Happy Hunting
  5. Blingon

    Blingon Member

    t8 fleet structure might need to be reconsidered. it seems ves toned down the healing on the variants of the greater entity. it gone from 24 to 16, matching the demolisher. regen for entity is suppose to match the shields of genari ship of same class, but i think i would still use 2 GHE because you can't really drag a demolisher into a knife fight. but most ships would not last fighting 2 greater entity at mid to close range. an alternative idea is to drive a demolisher with another demolisher as AI but use something smaller and fast (t5 bursting) as the third AI.

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