Warship Discussion!

Discussion in 'Beta Discussion' started by BlueMaro, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. darklord48

    darklord48 Member

    I was sitting around 10 hexes or so away. I would pass my turn allowing him to go first, then swoop in, fire 4-5 missles, if I hit in the right spot, 3 would get through. Other times all 4 would get blocked by shields. Then because I passed, I would get to go before him the next round. Fire everything off and retreat. Repeat as necessary. There were enough other corvettes in the area that he was being kept busy with. I didn't see any of them dealing damage, I think they were AI, or at least mostly so.

    Does the 80% @Xeen Dread was seeing reflect the dodge bonus I had? I maxed out Genari Evasion, which is why I think I survived so long. I didn't have extra repairs specifically because I figured it was a waste of LP when I could be taken out in one round of focused fire.
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  2. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    So there is a bug confirmed then -- you cannot get more than 20% XP from damaging a ship/station (not including destruction damage) -- so you can't 'farm' damage from something past a certain point. Eg. damaging an enemy ship that is worth 2000 XP, you cannot farm damage XP over 400 XP, it caps at that point.
    Of course the station that Xeen destroyed wouldn't have gone out that way if it was firing what it was supposed to. When the large supermap is finally deployed, this station bug will have to be fixed before then (along with missile drone/beam drone issues).
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  3. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Yeah, I noticed your tactics and decided to not bother lol. The others were indeed keeping me busy, and AmishJoe made it worse on me. I understand the algorithm a bit on spawning reinforcements, and I couldn't yell at him fast enough to not kill certain things >< Oh well, he helped out in the end once he got to the fight.

    I had suspected you took the evasion talents, and no, my accuracy rating does not indicate reduced chance to hit on my end! so my 80% at mid-range +30% - 30% would still be 80%, but you were farther out than mid range and it was saying 80 or 85%, really it was a good bit less (around 60's I suspect, its multiplicative, not additive). At midpoint, I go from 80 to theoretically 104 (80+ 30% * 80 or 24), but it still seems to cap at 96 ot 95.

    Well, that's more one thing off my list to test.

    My biggest problem in that fight was the power allocation bug and having all movement points removed or even shields lowered and weapons unpowered..... It was annoying :p

    I had setup a 10 damage counterfire shot against you after you were wounded from a previous round and about to fire-then-run.... it unpowered... I was waiting for the right moment to do that and laugh, then I was cheated out of my lulz!

    It's ok, I'll say it again, I hated that ship! I flew that sucker into the hive zone for some research into hive behaviors and such, they are a little different from Ma'Alaketh. I can take on either, but it is quite dangerous with only a few hits required to kill even a strong ship :p

    I have my wonderful M3 now
  4. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    So total XP acquired from damaging hits should not exceed 20% of the target's bounty? -Yes -Vesuvius

    The station was worth 2400 on a kill, so 4800 (480?) was max possible damage score (Edit: 20% of total value or 20% of the 10% kill value, 2% of total value?). I didn't reach a combined 7200 xp on the fight (all defenders included), so I never hit that 20% nor was I intentionally farming xp/hit and letting it repair. I was out for destruction after testing the waters :) Unfortunately, clearing those zones did not have them switch to Sol control, is that intended?! -Those spawn areas should switch to Sol, but again, this is why you're testing out to find these bugs. -Vesuvius

    I'm not sure if that was a Genari space dock or just some large fortification (the smaller ones are easy, Class X, but also worthless...)
    -All regions with the shiny star in galaxy map are spawn points, and all spawn point stations are class XII (exception the homeworld stations which are class XIII) -Vesuvius

    I can tell you it was indeed firing 6 lasers per side (5-7 dmg depending on range) and 3 missiles (8 damage each)! Maximum possible damage per round 54-66! Nasty. Most of them would hit at the range I was operating at too, but rarely doing any significant damage. The law of averages would kick in and I could eventually patch up or fall back to a greater distance for enhanced safety while I continued to fire for also-reduced damage on my end (mostly due to distance, accuracy wasn't too bad).
    -In normal situations, there would be players defending the station, so the station would basically have a support role. It also can repair allies en masse (which doesn't work right now). Stations are never supposed to be left undefended. -Vesuvius

    I was using equally nasty tactics to withstand this firepower, and evasion spec would have been quite useful there :)

    Tough choice between evasion and maneuvering.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  5. gegener

    gegener Member

    when i compare the montana stat : 52/150/15 with GEN ship class VII or VIII i dont understand :p
    my class VIII star fire III will only have 65/123/12
    it is balance with his passive (disabled for the beta)?
  6. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Attack/Offensive power is probably weighted very heavily as it seems to be the slowest gaining attribute with ship progression. (The weakest ships might start off with 2 attack and 6 defense, then you get to something like the M3 that has 50 attack and 150 defense, attack went up 25x, defense went up 30x, haven't analyzed every thing and variants make it difficult, I just know I love the M3 as a package)

    Maneuvering decreases while power increases because of power:movement changes as class size goes up, generally. so the last 2 numbers arent an accurate comparison.

    The M3 Produces 75 units of power at 5 per movement = 15 maneuvering. I believe it's specialty is power/defense within its class/set of variants.

    SF3 probably takes 6 or more power per movement, so produces at least 72 if not 84 or more.
    It gains 13 offensive rating and a variety of weapons + hull and crew at the expensive of 27 defensive rating while having around the same power output.

    It's marginal performance edge is reflected by its slightly greater cost.

    5 front facing weapons + 2 side weapons + 1 aft on SF3 vs M3 only have 5 front.

    Ah, 78 poweron the SF3, looks like 6.5 power:1movement then (if it was 6, it would have 13 maneuvering)

    Oh, that passive, yes it is very strong. I will certainly be taking it on just about every ship once it is enabled.

    In lore, the Sol are more advanced than the Genari who play to different strengths, so I believe looking at a 'class VII almost as good as an VIII' is wrong. What matters is the cost of the ship, which does line up.

    Compare both races' Class X, the Genari is almost half the price, and its stats and lore reflect that for a reason, though it is no less deadly if used properly.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  7. Vesuvius_SWIE

    Vesuvius_SWIE Administrator Staff Member

    Calculations are as follows:
    Energy Weapons Rating Calculation:
    (max power + RangeMod [+2] =1 [+3] =2) x Range/10 x Accuracy %

    Missile Weapons Rating Calculation:
    Max Damage x (Range/10) x Accuracy % x 1.5

    Offense Calculation:
    (Total Weapon Rating + 1 per marine pod) x (maneuverability/10) x (1.sensor over 10 /5)

    Defense Calculation:

    (Hull Points + (maxshieldx2 x shield tier rating*) x (maneuverability/20) x (1.sensor over 10 /5) *Shield tier = 1.0x for tier 1, 1.4x for tier 2, 1.8x for tier 3)

    Final Rating Calculation:

    Attack X Defense + Class boost* *class boost= V +400 VI +800 VII +1600 VIII +3200 IX +6400 X +12000

    Now take note that after the final rating calculation is made, some numbers are adjusted slightly as well -- though ship skills are not part of that calculation.
  8. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Thats for determining its stats and how those stats factor into its XP value/cost, yes?

    Some ship skills are incredibly powerful and useful while others are almost completely worthless. Seriously make or break territory (like rotation bonus, damage bonus, armored engines, and other strong ones vs ok ones like accuracy vs weak ones like crew morale?, crew damage protection, bonus sensor range/shadow). I'd have to create a list of all of them to really rank them.

    -That is the point, some ship skills are sucky, others are cool. Its called having varied things. What matters in the end is what ship fits best for your playstyle. -Vesuvius

    I wish we had a little more customization of our ships beyond captain and crew, but you knew that already :p
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2017
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  9. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY Member

    A ship-builder type of thing could be cool. Where you take a basic variant and choose what guns/shields you want in the various hardpoints, and based on what you choose, it changes the XP cost of the ship or whatever.

    -I told Xeen that I would love that too, but its all about the time/resources we have. Not even ready to launch, let alone to have a complex feature like that. In a sense, the Hive would be like that, as you customize or 'grow' your ship. But if a feature like this does happen one day, I'm all for it, and it would be an excuse to monetize it. -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2017
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  10. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Found in order of class progression for Sol ships:
    +++ --- Indicate how much I value each at this time vs other passives, considering if the skill was in working order

    --- Small Profile: -1 to sensor detection range (refers to enemies detecting you, possibly not even working like science officer skills). Found on Bengbu
    --- Armored Weapons: Weapons cannot be damaged (unverified). Found on Mendi
    +Initiative: +2 Initiative only (no movement, don't think it works like captain/officer tactical advantage). Found on Orchis
    ---Sensor Boost: +1 to sensor range (refers to you detecting enemies, possibly not working like science officer skills). Found on Gorshkov
    +Accuracy Boost (Missile): +10% Missile accuracy (should be working). Fond on Halifax
    +Efficient Repairs: +1 Repair orders (Works, verified). Found on Liverpool
    ---Radiation Resistant: +1 Radiation Resistance (no other stats like this? unknown effects of if working). Found on Oslow
    +++Damage Boost (Beam): +1 Beam Damage (should be working). Found on Leningrad
    --Experienced Officers: +10% xp gain (probably not working like captain leadership). Found on Swordfish
    --Comfortable Crew: +5 morale when entering combat (entering combat? duration? effect? working at all?). Found on Kumano
    ---Dark Matter Astrophysics: +30% travel speed on map (should be working, engineer version does). Found on Mercury
    -Strategic Armor: 50% reduced crew casualties (unknown if working or not, difficult to test). Found on Montana
    +Precision Fire (Beam): 5% beam accuracy (should be working). Found on Nagara
    ---Admiral's Flagship: +5 morale when entering combat (same as above comfortable crew). Found on Baltimore
    ---Genari Monolith: -10 Genari morale when entering range (similar to previous morale skills, unknown effect). Found on Exeter
    ++Armored Crew Area: No crew damage from weapon hits (should be working, armored engines is). Found on Yamato
    +++Armored Rear Engine Mounts: No engine damage from weapon hits (verified working, at least on Class XII shipyards). Found on Colossus

    -Dark matter astrophysics will matter in the main game, as travel time is sped up right now; and when certain regions are filled in queue, you get first dibs when you can travel faster. Morale will effect power of your ship, another feature that hasn't been implemented yet. +morale does a power boost, -morale does a power reduction -Vesuvius

    Support ship specials unlisted.

    There are a pile of not so good (even if working) ones, some ok ones, and a few really good ones.

    That Genari Star Fire Rotation passive has me jelly (especially if it was working now).
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2017
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  11. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Ambushed a Class X Leviathan attacking one of our Sol stations with my C VIII Montana and immobilized, then proceeded to give it the beating of a lifetime until he cheese-quit the game for a free escape ><
    3000 XP in a few rounds of combat at least.

    Took some damage from return-fire missile launchers (~10 a hit, 21 absorbed by shield 19 to hull, 12 repaired), a smart play arming those rear defenses even though nothing was apparently going to get behind him. Well worth the pain to achieve maximum damage at close beam range, ensuring complete engine/power decimation.

    Bigger isn't better if it can't move at all to punch you!

    Montana Ambushes Leviathan.jpg
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  12. Devilgeek

    Devilgeek Member

    @Xeen Dread
    There is a difference between "cheese-quitting" and quitting because there is absolutely nothing you can do. You actually didn't even scratch my engines. The game is absolutely unplayable at this point, because I literally cannot move. All my movement point "magically" disappear for absolutely no reason at all. So what's the point of staying in combat and potentially lose a ship when you somehow have 0 movement points with only shield allocated.

    And "ambushed" isn't the word I would use considering the game gave me your location.

    -Indeed, if one's ship is disabled from moving because of a bug like that, it wouldn't be considered a bad thing if you disconnected and restarted. Its another major bug that came out of nowhere, and I hope it will be fixed first priority. -Vesuvius

    -Just fyi for all, when the actual maingame launches, a player disconnecting makes their ship go into AI mode, not disappear, but in testing right now, we leave it as you vanish. --Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2017
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  13. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I know what you mean, and I've been there. You get that problem with power and movement points when engines are damaged even if you repair them to full in the following allocation phase. Did a message pop up after what appeared to be a valid allocation of power saying "Insufficient power" and then your allocation was revoked in part?

    I did a quick check on the shipyard site to verify that the Leviathan does not have 'Armored Engines' before my attack (It has -5 enemy morale upon entering combat, which probably didn't even affect me since I entered after you, not that I know what morale does anyway). If you knew I was there, why did you ignore me? (I hate that you know the exact capabilities of every ship so easily, no variation ><, but it is what it is and I will use every available tool/piece of information I can)

    Cheese quit is cheese quit regardless of the reason (not saying I blame you given the circumstances, but still cheesey that you/anyone can just quit out of a fight like that and poof be safe at the shipyard, hope that gets fixed soon after the problems that are breaking combat).

    I ran into the same problems while running a Kumano and managed to defend myself against a corvette harassing me along with AI reinforcements :p

    I've also stayed in fights to observe just what (and hopefully why) such problems were happening, costing me ships and crew. I did manage to figure out links to several major problems!

    Beware activating an ability after allocating power, it will reset your power distribution to what it was when the allocation phase began! Ability trigger first, then distribute power (or redo power after ability if you did power first).

    Tis the life of a tester.

    OUR FIRST HEAD TO HEAD PLAYER WAR! XEEN vs. DEVIL ... time for a Battle Royale! Haha -Vesuvius
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2017
  14. gegener

    gegener Member

    hum no
    you get that pb when you dont have the best init... i play with my ship class VIII vs some class III i have 9 move and init at the end of the allocation phase. the enemy have mort init : he play his turn we dont see each other we dont detect each other we dont hit each other. at the start of my combat phase i have 0 move because of the bug. i leave and play a class III ship xD
  15. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    I've only ever had 0 move because of engine damage (and it doesn't take much either)
  16. gegener

    gegener Member

    your are a lucky one ^^ if you dont loose X move at each other ship combat turn...
    i had got this bug 12h ago
    will try to make screen shot the next time
  17. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    is it ALL movement lost or just 1?

    If it is just 1 movement, that's because the MP rounds up based on partial power (the display) while allocating power....

    But when you end allocation and go to combat, you only get the MP that you have full power for and any excess partial power is wasted!

    the above problem only exists for ships Class V and above that require more than 1 power per MP
  18. Devilgeek

    Devilgeek Member

    It's all movement point. The way I allocate my power, I should always have 4 movement points, lowest is 3. In this case, I end up with 0, whether I have heavily damaged engines or not.
  19. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    Right (as expected in your case, his is different), like I said, it doesnt take much damage to the engines to screw up the whole power system and result in 0 movement (1 damage remaining when allocation ends = 0 movement for combat, damaged but all repaired can cause power problems during allocation, but should allow for movement during combat).
  20. Xeen Dread

    Xeen Dread Active Member

    All Genari bases destroyed and this is my prize. Could have used it to do some of the heavy lifting ><

    2000 xp +400 per crew rank!

    LMAO 5 xp for the kill on Class III AI trash.

    It sits friggin' huge on the tile!
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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