The new patch is amazing. Introducing ship class limits is a huge step towards balancing the game for new and old players. It will also push us towards using almost all ships (including the variants!) instead of the strongest they can buy. Right now i am just disappointed at the state of the balance of the ship tier limits. For example 1x c10 is supposed to be equal to 2x c4 + 1 c3??? Also why a c5 has the same points as a c6 when the c6 has better hull and damage? This is not balanced so lets work together to make things better. Vesuvious said that it can be fixed within one day so lets make it happen. This is how i would approach a balancing solution: Set the c3 class as our minimum starting base that equals 1 point. Find the average hull of each tier of ships and set each tier its points value. Find the average damage of each tier of ships and set each tier its points value. Add the average hull+damage points in comparison to c3 and divide by 2 (to get the minimum value of a c3=1). So i have done the numbers in excel and paste them here: Average points based on HULL: t3 : 20 Points: 1 t4 : 40 Points: 2 t5 : 80 Points: 4 t6 : 120 Points: 6 t7 : 200 Points: 10 t8: 250 Points: 12,5 t9: 335 Points: 16,75 t10: 445 Points: 22,25 Average points based on damage: t3: 10 Points: 1 t4: 20 Points: 2 t5: 20 Points:2 t6: 40 Points: 4 t7: 45 Points:4,5 t8: 50 Points: 5 t9: 70 Points: 7 t10: 100 Points: 10 Now we add Hull+damage points and divide by 2 (because we want our c3 to be 1 point) and round the numbers: FINAL NUMBERS: t3: Points: 1 t4: Points: 2 t5: Points: 3 t6: Points: 5 t7: Points: 7 t8: Points: 9 t9: Points: 12 t10: Points: 16 Compare these numbers with the numbers we have now. T3-t5 is done correctly (same numbers with my own) and everything from c6+ is way unbalanced.... Oh and because Ves said in chat yesterday that the numbers were way off because people wanted the big ships to be able to join even the small sectors. This should in no way be acceptable. First of all its unfair for all the players. Not only that but small sectors could work in a way as a "sanctioned area" for new players to learn the game. In no way it is acceptable to have a big ship come and one shot a new player or any player (like i could do before the server reset). If you want to join a smaller sector get a smaller ship period.
Want other players opinion on this. Reminder that the current regions most contested are 6/8/10 unit regions, with the larger station regions being 16. Region limits can be boosted of course.
i like infested's numbers. they seem balanced. you could also increase the sector limits a bit. some notes: 1. a c10 ship in a 16 points sector alone will be doomed by the lack of mobility/sight/range vs almost anything. so a lone c10 is useless anywhere. 2. with limits increase, we might again get to long turns if they are filled with c3 ships. like in the start of the server. a 16vs16 c3 will take a long time to resolve in the beginning. so either reconsider mobility into calculating points or just keep some sectors out of c9/c10 reach.
Sorry but why only hull and damage as factors? always the same mistake ignoring range / accuracy / shields / power
It would be extremely harder to calculate all the secondary factors you said. An exception would be initiation because its a big factor but i cant get the averages because some ships like the intradictor have more while others in the same class same race have less. So then we need an overcomplex system with different points for each ship and each race. Go ahead and try it and lets see if you come up with different numbers. Based on my experience in the game these numbers make sense but ofc are not the gold standard and could definitely improve. Btw even the numbers for higher tier ships seem correct. For example a c9 like the yamato or nova is a ridiculously over powered ship. People dont understand that it can just turtle with shields and countermeasures and literally do 60-100 damage per turn on your smaller ships (equivalent hull of 3-5 t3) per turn and when it wants it can just leave the sector unharmed with 200 hull points left and zero chance to die because the c3 that are left in battle have absolutely zero chance to take it down with their left over damage over 2 turns.
I like the faction limit of bigger ships being weighted, however it's very difficult to buy a tier 5 or a tier 7 under the current system, sense they weighted the same as the tier above them. I was saving for the Leningrad IV but under the current system I cannot justify it, when it takes 3 faction points the same as the Mercury III, with well over double the fire power. My first thought was to do .5's for the half point difference or to macro it out for whole numbers. Infested appears to have added some logic to it. However we also don't want too many players in all zones. I like where it's going though, till then I'm saving for the Mercury III.
the tiers should each be different otherwise you get the entire yu-gi-oh mechanic where lvl 5 and 6 are valued the same because it requires 1 sacrifice in either case.
Careful what happens with this..... a sector worth x points could take x times y ship's...... And then..... if the sector cap and ship values are too much just 1 plus 1 equals 2'....... a big player could go in.... And find himself waiting ten to.twenty minutes fro his first turn against a bunch of newbies sent to defend...... so be careful with 1 plus 1 by only the numbers on paper.
The problem with too many C3 vs bigger ships has an easy solution that should be implemented regardless of these balance issues: Just reduce the timers of C1-C3 ships to 30 seconds. These ships practically have only 4-5 actions: go in, attack 2-3 times and go out. These actions can easily be done in 30 seconds. This way even 12 c3 will feel like 6 right now. If you want even more extreme solutions just completely remove the ability of C1-C3 ships to enter the big maps where we want big ship fights. The small ships are cannon fodder anyway there since they get one shotted by pretty much any other ship. Think about it this way: small sectors are "protected areas" for new players with small ships and big sectors are the opposite. The whole point is to have balanced fights. The speed problems are irrelevant and need a good solution anyway. So lets fix both.
I do prefer individual values per class, than 5/6 7/8 9/10 etc... but I do need a concrete consensus on what the values should be finalized as, and what the sector limits should become (or stay the same). Eg. currently 6 (approx. 30x30hex) 8 (approx. 40x40hex) 10 (approx. 50x50hex) are the most common ones. Consider that a T7 wouldn't even be able to get into a 30x30 then.
Over time.some of the massive brains that will come to this game will know which sector, what ship's, and where on the map beats anything that comes in.... keep some sectors really different. Like it is now..... just imagine.... if it can be done.... a small map... ships lined up across it.... all banging away like crazy..... no need to move... no room.to move.... just straight firepower... any ways.. obsessively addicted... must log off.
Please you are on the internet, you will never get such kind of consensus Honestly I think we just need to play with current values and see how it s going on instead of change the values too quickly. THe only thing quick clear for the moment is that each tier should have different values to not always warp the higher class possible ship at same value
