*** CLOSED BETA UPDATES & DISCUSSION/BUG REPORTS II ***

So... you joined Team Sol ?

 

i confirm he havent the possibility to hunt me
i was too lost in my missunderstandig of the pod and how they work so i was more in a exel doc than in the beta...

xeen to repons officially at your point of vue about how its simple to kill a dread with 6 corvette :
why do you think a dread will play alone and why a dread wont flee the map before you come back with your x4dmg skill after you leave the map for reset it?
there is a possibility that you think dread player will be braindead and not the corvette player?
if the game finish with 3combat ship why the dread player cant have 2 other ship classe IV-V-VI that can one shoot and run after corvette easilly?
perhaps you are trus but, i think, its not on the paper but on the beta that you need to try it.
i can be the dread player cause you make me think that i am braindead, this will be more easilly

 

Pretty sure I answered those already, but here's a short version:

-Dread run away? Takes 4 turns to warp out to subspace, completely immobilized and defenseless with only 184/188 hull points to survive with (no weapons, movement, or shield), will be found and killed in 3 or less.

-You don't have to leave the map and reset it to use it again in order to deal enough damage to kill the Dread.

-Playing with friends won't matter one bit with turn ordering and proper alpha strike. Highest initiative gets to recon first, make decisions, pass turn, move last, fire, then go first again, fire, kill, and leave. Anything short of an equal wing of corvette defenders would do absolutely nothing (and corvettes may not be able to help either if initiative is managed properly).... but then we are talking about corvettes vs corvettes and the dread is useless. Anything from Class IV to IX is a terribly easy kill for coordinated corvettes with how the TBS system works.

-If you take Fleet Commander I or II, it locks out Battleship Commander and lower, so you cannot operate the highest class(es) of ships.

-I need a second skilled player AND Fleet Commander skill working so that each of us can coordinate 3 corvettes apiece in order to do this OR 6 skilled players with 1 corvette each.

Testing the damage mechanics and math behind stacking modifiers:

A single corvette can deal 4+3+4+4 = 15 damage per round + and additional 12 damage using overload (once). In a combined last/first alpha strike, each corvette can cover a considerable range and deliver 42 points of damage AND retreat with full mobility before anything can respond to their attack!

A single player able to command THREE corvettes has the potential to deal 27x3 damage in one turn and 15x3 dmg in the following turn for a total of 126 damage!

Assuming the target has full shields, best case scenario in his defense (appx 20 points on the largest of shields, some do a little more) for both rounds and a 12 point repair with full engineer spec, anything with 126 -(12+20*2) HP = 74 dead before action taken in second round of engagement (not necessarily the second combat round or two, there may be a recon combat round before engaging).

Assuming 20 points of shielding in the first round and no second round of shielding or repairs, anything with 27x3-20 = 58 Hull points will be dead in the very same turn the alpha strike begins with zero recourse.

If Two players are each controlling 3 corvettes, they can tackle something with 27x6-20 = 142 Hull points in one round, with a follow up attack in the second round (before anything else can act) of 6x15 dmg = 90. Assuming in the second round a full shield of 20 is place in the right spot AND 12 hull points are repaired (maximum benefit for the defender), 58 of that 90 damage will reach the hull in the second round of the alpha strike for a total damage output of 142+58 = 200! damage. Enough to down ANY ship in the game while having a few extra shots available to bait counterfires or account for misses at 95%+ chance.
The corvettes could waste up to 12 damage worth of shost (4 x 3's or 3 x 4's). Arguably a tight line to walk for downing a dread, but unquestionably possible in the case of a dread and absolutely lethal to anything weaker.

*omitting section about baiting counter fire, if any, and knowing exact ship stats/capabilities
**Safe to assume corvettes can close to 1 hex and get 95% accuracy
***many other topics were covered in the full post, but I since learned more details about the math behind the fights, the concept remains the same and the theory is more than plausible.

Keep in mind that the alpha-strike always has the option to call an audible and switch targets to mission-threatening corvettes if needed (for a round or even two), clear them out, then go for the prize before it has a chance to leave (and that's assuming the Dread begins a warp-out on its very first turn)!


For illustration:

Total value of 6 maxed out corvettes ~1000 LP each x 6 = ~6000 LP
Total value of a maxed out dread ~120,000 LP

 

Where is the Star Warrior Type IV on the shipyard page (The one with 3 forward missile launchers and then some?)

 

its a new one (will be lock in the game unless you have a code from a special event if i am not wrong)
3 missile on front+1 on each side
12 hull point and 0 field

actually the best firepower class III ship we (genari tester) can have

 

It's taking me 6 turns with a single corvette and all things included (those repairs... + some misses, mostly when I'm at range to avoid reactor explosion) to down a Class VII Mala Cruiser. If there were 3 corvettes, it would die in 2 rounds easily, 1 round if no misses at range.

 

Yes, great firepower, but poor mobility/initiative/defenses.

 

0 defense true like near all the class III genari ship...
poor mobility? yes if you active all weapon its true but i dont see the use...
poor initiative?yes if you active all weapon its true but i dont see the use...
the good balance of this ship i use 3 weapon active,2scan and all the energie remaining in move
without skill this give you scan 6 move 20 init 20 3*4 missile dmg enouth ti kill most of the sol ship class III in one round (exept the ultra tanky one)

 

Yey for missing half your turn or more because your ship moves so damn slow and stops to ID every target along the way...

/EndSarcasm

This will only be an even bigger problem when we are doing 20 vs 20 matches.

You cannot afford to stop for 2-4 seconds every time you detect a ship or come to an environmental.

-The environmental stopping thing is currently a bug, it would only stop you the first time you encounter it, with a warning, and that would be it. In big matches with a lot of players, most have already detected each other, so you wouldn't be stopping for every individual. -Vesuvius

 

This reply sums up exactly why you dont understand what I'm talking about with sending corvettes after a much higher class ship.

If you don't see the importance of mobility and initiative on a corvette..., the most powerful force in the game.

This is what V was talking about when he was saying most people dont play skillfully, they just slug it out.

 

not sure to understand i was sarcatic ^^
for me 20 init is very good and if you have 20 init you have lotttttt of move point
on genari ship dont know SOL ship but stupid ia have all the time less init than 20

 

Initiative and movement points are linked to a degree, but there are abilities that modify either independently.

20 Initiative isn't much for a corvette. You could be outmatched by other higher class ships.

30 Initiative is about right for a corvette., and they can do more. Much more if the skills were working +8 for Sol or +6 for Genari and a maximum base of 40 Init on a AF IV or 42 on a Mendi III.

Genari have a better tactical officer and in general officer/captain potential, but Sol does have the initiative advantage, which is not to be taken lightly! Sol also have a slightly better ships.

I am very jealous of that Tactical Officer. +2 damage is amazing, then 8 more skill points to synergy with! Geez.

Take an AF IV with +2 dmg officer for example, that's base 2 +2 +1 for range for 2 power per each of 3 weapons (6 power for 15 damage!) and then you can overload one weapon once for +300% (not including the range bonus, so that's an extra 4*300% = 12 dmg). It then has 14 power leftover for 28 init/movement base, which can be modified further from there. The AF III is quite nice, but barely outclassed by the Mendi III, though the Mendi does have the drawback of not having all weapons facing forward.

The AF IV and the Mendi III have the exact same max damage potential of 27 and sustained damage of 15/turn. The AF IV has 2 more hull points, but the Mendi can (can... not going to) power up to 2 shield points on any or all sides. The Mendi III wins with 1 additional reactor power over the AF IV, but the AF compensates with Genari Officers.

Prettymuch all other corvettes are worthless lugs. They don't have enough maximum power.

 

doesnt work the last time will try it on my new class vI ship

 

+2 damage doesnt work? +1 on sol does for sure

Even if it doesn't now, it will sooner or later, and it will be very strong.

You have to hover over a powered up weapon (at least 1 charge) during combat phase to see additional damage. You cannot see it during allocation phase.

 

@Vesuvius_SWIE

Some tactical/gameplay modification suggestions I'd really like you to consider:
-We already all agree that anything that just entered the map should in no way be immediately visible to anyone already on the map, unless you just happen to have scan power that great and in that area (talking about seeing things on unidentified tiles during transit, etc.) That has to go, and I don't think there is any debate on this topic.

-it shouldn't be, if it is, its a bug. You can only see them once you or an ally detects them, or they are within 4 hex range of you. -Vesuvius

-Moving on from above, we should NOT see exactly who OR what has joined the area! For the sake of continuing other motifs/preservation of immersion/realism, it does not make sense that you know who is entering or existing (if you join late) without knowing who is there or where (you have not scanned them/seen the ship)?? We do not get information on damage dealt (unless you are keen with numbers and observation and watch your xp gained, then you can approximate and determine 'more or less') or the status of any other ship but our own (with the exception of the visual cues as to hull condition). So, why should we immediately know what class, ship, and captain is warping in when 'something' joins the area? I say we shouldn't. At the most, I thin it is acceptable to in-lore/in the game world be able to detect a number of small, medium or large 'subspace bubbles', 'warp signatures', etc. (ships warping in would be emitting crazy signatures after all), signifying that a Class I-IV, V-VII, or VIII-X ship (small, medium, large signature respectively) has warped in. No one should know exactly which ship (prevents easily looking up stats, formulating battle plans, etc. before actually identifying your target, obviously since there are few 'large' ships, this would be much easier to guess) or which captain (someone know for their pvp prowess or just some nub?) is warping in to the area.

-This is game flavor, seeing a ship warp in is fine, and provides its own tactical layer. -Vesuvius

-Continuing on from point #2, the turn order bar should not show information on the ships in the area UNTIL they are identified. The turn order bar should differentiate between friend and foe and self's turn, but not show which class, specific ship, or captain is in the rotation until they are scanned.

-If above changes are made: Information gathered during a fight about active combatants should be shared with anyone who joins later in the fight. For example, if I'm in a fight and I have scanned 3 out of 4 targets and then some backup arrives, that backup should know the class, ship, captain, etc. of the scanned targets and have them identified in the turn-order bar, but they should not know the 4th ship that is still unknown to me after having been in the zone for a couple of turns or so, nor should they be completely blind to all the information I have already obtained.

While the cinematic transit phase is cool and I suspect most people do not/will not take close looks at the ships, it gives away too much information all at once: Class, Specific Ship, Captain, and even Location. For that reason + slowing down the pace of the game, I suggest the transit phase be abbreviated and modified to not give away information or take up so much time.

 

You can know what class ships are in a system from the galactic map. You should be able to see what class ship is entering a system as well. I agree that knowing the exact ship and pilot are not necessary.

-Agreed -Vesuvius

 

Good point. Maybe the overview/galaxy map should report X Y Z 'small' 'medium' and 'large' signatures as well instead of outright reporting Class #'s.

Perhaps a dedicated support ship or racial/faction unlocks/technologies could be obtained to give further details. Information is valuable, and too much is just given away.

I could live with exact classes being openly known from the start, but exact ships, captains, and ESPECIALLY locations is no good in my book.

-but exact ships, captains, and ESPECIALLY locations is no good in my book. - Locations yes, the rest no. -Vesuvius

Would be pretty cool if there were faction-wide bonuses obtained by diverting a designated portion of your LP earned towards new tech of your choosing or sending it to a pool to be spent by a leader?! Only IF you wanted to contribute, you don't have to, but also there is only so much you can do and so much you could possibly need to save up in the event of a catastrophic loss (at least for now?).

-Actually the fleet admiral/empress' first has some special 'race wide' skills, that haven't been implemented, and may not until after beta. He/she can actually build stations and such -Vesuvius

In fact, it would probably be a good idea to only have that option unlock after becoming a Commodore.

 

Oh ya, remove the ability to fly through a target and turn around for easy back shots. You can't go through most debris, why can you go around a ship but not debris?

1 ship = no wider that 1 km. 1 hex = 1000km. Like in the board game before it, you can pass through your enemy/ally ship. -Vesuvius

Allow people to form up and create a wall to protect their rear.

That or make debris passable.

-Debris is supposed to fade over time. -Vesuvius

Hell, if debris blocks scanning, player ships should block scanning too.

-Debris is not supposed to block scanning, its a bug/feature that hasn't been implemented yet. -Vesuvius

One way or the other, but make everything in agreement.

 

I agree that debris shouldn't block the viewing angle, but I disagree about moving past it. A ship consumes the size of its hull. A blown up ship's debris field could be much larger with enough density to prevent passage without damage.

 

I have been gone for a few days and not sure what is going on. Just tried to capture a few different sectors and could not rustle up am AI fight in 3 or 4 genari sectors. Am I missing something??